26 Comments:

• At least Renewable Choice Energy are asking politely for money. They won't put you in jail for not buying their cards like, say, the UK government will if you decide their "green taxes" don't represent value for money.

  By  Rob Fisher, at 11/02/2006 02:33:00 AM  

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• Wouldn't these cards effectively subsidize wind power and support the development of sustainable energy infrastructures? I think that's what's being implied by those selling this, and generally understood by those buying this sort of thing. I think that criteria of success in this case would be evidence of this wind power being fully utilized, and taking the place of 'dirtier' energy sources that would otherwise have been used. If those criteria are not met, then I'd say that RCE is getting "free money" under the pretense of envioronmental stewardship. If those criteria are met, then it's a win for all parties involved. And just about everyone else.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/02/2006 06:29:00 AM  

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• wow.
  First, for someone thinking of this scam.
  Second, for anyone actually buying into it.
  (Third, for the shills that are actually doing damage control already, apparently)

  By  Anonymous, at 11/02/2006 07:44:00 AM  

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• Your ignorance is disappointing. You obviously have no idea how this works. Go HERE for an education.

  By  paul, at 11/02/2006 07:55:00 AM  

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• Wind Credits can definitely be confusing. To be honest, I wasn't 100% straight on how they worked for the first week or two when we started Renewable Choice back in 2001.
  
  Wind credits are not a scam. They are 100% legit and are the mechanism that allows consumers, organizations, and businesses to do their part in supporting clean energy.
  
  Who buys wind credits? Wells Fargo, Johnson & Johnson, Starbucks, Vail, Safeway, Sprint, IBM, Staples, FedEx Kinkos, Harvard, and Duke University, to name a few.
  
  You can click on my post "How does Wind Power really work? to get the lowdown.
  
  Cheers!
  
  Shea

  By  Shea Gunther, at 11/02/2006 08:24:00 AM  

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• So long as people understand just what it is that they're purchasing, it isn't a scam. When you buy a wind credit (as long as it's through someone reputable; I can't vouch for Whole Foods or RCE one way or the other), you're basically guaranteeing that that much additional wind power will be put on the grid.
  
  If you buy, say, enough wind credits to match a year of your energy consumption, the effect is to eliminate the need to produce that much electricity in a CO2-generating way. Purchasers are volunteering to pay for the pollution they generate.
  
  If RCE is getting rich by producing something that people want to buy (clean energy), why is that a scam? Now, if they were saying that they were producing clean energy, and not actually doing so, that would be a clear scam (and I'm not clear on how to verify that they're not doing something underhanded, like selling the same block of energy to multiple consumers).
  
  The point is, I've bought wind farm credits before (through Rocky Mountain Power's "Blue Sky" Program), I understand exactly what I bought, I think I'm contributing to the public good by buying them, and I plan on buying more in the future.
  
  Your description is a somewhat ridiculous mischaracterization of the program.

  By  Bryce, at 11/02/2006 08:59:00 AM  

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• Renewable Choice adhears to all standards of and is audited by Green-e, the government run renewable energy certification program that is as legit as you can get.

  By  Shea Gunther, at 11/02/2006 09:05:00 AM  

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• Are they tax deductable?

  By  Anonymous, at 11/02/2006 09:50:00 AM  

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• Having an employee of Renewable Choice at the Whole Foods stores is a great idea. They must have listened (and quickly!) because I just met an employee today from Renewable Choice (the day after their card was first introduced) at a Whole Foods in Sherman Oaks West, CA and he was very helpful in explaining what these new cards are. I love the idea! Plus he said he was touring the west coast Whole Foods for a month to launch the new product. He said his next stop is the West Hollywood stores tomorrow and Saturday.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/02/2006 01:22:00 PM  

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• from your comment...
  
  Steve-
  Sorry, but your post made it sound like you think it’s a scam — an “ingenious” way to get “free money.”
  
  But just so we’re clear, the money from RECs is not “free” in any sense, and which electricity source is best is not a separate discussion, because the proceeds from RECs actually do (and are independently audited and certified) to go to producers of clean energy (in this case, wind). You don’t have to believe it, but it’s true.
  
  So, every person who buys a wind power card is saying "I think wind power is better than fossil fuel power." Period.

  By  David, at 11/02/2006 03:49:00 PM  

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• Whoever wrote this post must also think buying any "branded" product is a scam.
  
  By definition building and maintaining a brand costs more than just selling the unbranded product. Therefore any branded product is a scam since the buyer must pay for the product + the cost of maintaining the brand (advertising etc) when they could simply buy the unbranded product.

  By  Daniel, at 11/02/2006 08:39:00 PM  

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• The world needs new thinking and solutions. At first they will seem odd, and that is where we need to educate ourselves. We need the courage to try things and to speak our mind.
  
  I am curious if the person who posted that they thought this was a scam, still thinks that way after reading these posts and perhaps following the page full of explanation.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/03/2006 01:32:00 AM  

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• To me it looks like they expect people to feel guilty for thier nonrenewable energy consumption and they are marketing this product so that individuals can pay a tax on their energy consumption. The tax goes to the wind power company and any middle men in the deal. What the wind power company does with the "tax" is not detailed and could just go to overhead costs or any other costs the wind power company faces in the operation.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/03/2006 02:16:00 PM  

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• Renewable Choice Energy is asking for free money. That's the job of a non-profit organization, not a privately-held company.
  
  A "portion" of the money that you give to their for-profit corporation actually ends up being used to buy renewable energy credits. They refuse to tell you how much they keep for profit, and how much they give to the "good cause".
  
  The wind cards themselves are obviously designed to deceive people into thinking that they have stored value. The card itself serves no purpose.
  
  Wind credits, on their own, are not a scam. Renewable Choice Energy's wind cards are.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/05/2006 10:14:00 PM  

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• Of course the wind power isn't going directly to your home. That doesn't even make sense. The purchase of a $15 card does not include running power lines directly to your house from a wind turbine. It is a direct purchase of wind credits to offset the amount of electricity your house uses in a month.
  It is an excellent way to get people involved and allow the purchase of wind credits as a gift.
  It's not a scam and no one is getting rich. Right now, about 2% of everyone's power is from wind. These cards allow the purchase of credits so more goes into the grid. If enough people buy them, we can raise the percentage of power from wind which everyone receives.
  After you buy one card, follow the directions to set up your home with wind power from your power company! It really is a good thing :)

  By  Anonymous, at 11/06/2006 02:31:00 PM  

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• I like the idea of wind power credits. I even buy them occasionally. But I'm thinking of stopping my purchase of credits until these companies provide a lot more transparancy about their finances. I want to see the trail of where my "donation" is going. I want to see how much goes to projects and how much goes to overhead, advertising, marketing, and misc.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/14/2006 11:35:00 AM  

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• The anonymous comment from 11.2.06 has it right - buying renewable energy credits (RECs) helps to make up the cost difference between conventional forms of energy like coal, and the higher cost of clean, renewable power. Buying RECs is an investment in all of our futures...it allows the free market to demonstrate demand for responsible energy generation. However, Whole Foods Renewable Choice Cards are not the only way to go. The green energy market has options - good options. For example, some green energy marketers are actually BUILDING NEW WIND POWER PROJECTS. Community Energy, Inc. for example, is a developer of wind power plants. The benefit to the customer is that they can more clearly see the connection between their hard earned dollars and the advancement of renwable power generation, through actual project development.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/15/2006 05:19:00 AM  

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• The indignation over the need for "transparency" seems perhaps misguided. Do you ask for that transparency every month when you write a check to your local utility? Certainly not or we wouldn't need companies like Renewable Choice, Community Energy or any of the others to be out there trying to make things better for us all. Praises to them in the highest.
  
  Why do we hold anything environmental to a higher standard than the conventional?

  By  Anonymous, at 11/15/2006 07:10:00 PM  

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• To the above commenter...
  
  Paying your utility bill is not the same as buying "energy credits". Paying your utility bill is paying for something you actually received. Buying energy credits from RCE is actually donating money to a for-profit corporation.
  
  RCE doesn't have to be transparent, but if it's going to ask the public for donations, it's in their best interest to do so.

  By  Steve, at 11/15/2006 08:17:00 PM  

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• To the above commenter - when you
  pay your utility bill for regular power, you're paying for something you actually receive. However, when you pay your utility a little more for wind power, that "little more" goes for something you don't receive, and cannot, due to the laws of physics, which force the wind power to go to the closest energy draws rather than to your meter. When you pay your utility a little more for wind power, you're paying for "credit" for having the regular power you use replaced on the grid with wind power. That "credit" is a wind credit. If you prefer to think of that as a donation to your utility about which the utility should be transparent, fine, but don't think it's any different from buying credits from any of the reputable credit marketers out there that provide a valuable service of bringing demand for wind power around unhelpful utilities to wind farms.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/22/2006 09:34:00 AM  

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• Hey Shea - since when is Green-e "government run?" Nothing against Green-e, but they're not government run.
  
  As a for-profit, you owe your fiancial well being to the trust of your customers and the market.
  
  Knock off the bull.

  By  Anonymous, at 11/22/2006 09:43:00 AM  

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• Oops, my bad there. You're right Anonymous.
  
  Forgive me, I haven't actually worked at RCE for five years now. I am a blogger and responded to this post and the Boing Boing coverage because I know the company. I should have boned up a bite more on Green-e.
  
  Doh
  
  
  :D
  
  
  
  But, they are the certifying agency for wind credits and does bestow legitimacy. I do remember how much work my buddy Kris had to do every year to meet the requirements of the audit.

  By  Shea Gunther, at 11/27/2006 07:21:00 PM  

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• Shame on those hippies for buying these things. Of course they sold the first one at a Whole Foods in Boulder. The same people who spend more money for "organic" food that's no more nutritious and a lot more prone to bacteria would be the perfect suckers for an energy scam. I think I'll start selling wind power cards here in Carrboro, NC (where people actually live in communes, no joke).

  By  Matt, at 2/27/2007 03:08:00 PM  

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• An "investment" implies a financial return. Giving money to someone to build a company that doesn't provide capital gains or dividends, cannot be an investment.
  Even though it maybe benificial to the windpower companies, and their bottomline.
  
  The cards are deceptive; since they are placed in with gift cards (guess-as I haven't seen them at the stores yet) and given as rewards by credit card companies(not a guess). These things generally have concrete value to the buyer/receiver. Plus the cards are made to look like they have a value by printing a dollar value on it's face just like a gift card.
  
  As to the number of companies that carry the card - the fact that the green lobby can sucker businesses, doesn't make their products legit.

  By  utopiajim, at 1/03/2008 05:57:00 PM  

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• Scam if i ever saw one. i work in solar power, and take pride in earning my money. Maybe i will make a ton of money by creating "Solar gift cards" ?! what a crock! If you are a self-respecting worker, you get out there and compete. build your wind turbines quickly, strong, and eficient. if it's cheaper than coal, good job. if not, figure it out. don't beg people for money and trick them into thinking they're helping anyone. money comes for free if you're a community theatre, and even then only if you're good. what a bunch of dorks.

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